A Little Jaded - Season 2, Episode 2
Jade: Hello, everybody. Welcome to Season Two, Episode two of A Little Jaded. I'm your host, Jade. I'm here with some super special friends. Do you guys want to introduce yourselves?
Joanna: Yes. Hi, guys. I'm Joanna, the co-host of A Little Jaded, so excited to be back for Season Two. Our last episode was recorded quite a while ago, so it's been a bit, so don't mind if we stutter or anything. It's been a while, but, yeah, I'm Joanna, the Executive VP here at Jaded. And yes, I'm excited because our guest today is Sanj, aka the previous Head of Marketing at Jaded. She's also a recently graduated marketing student, she’s into social media, content creation, also a 1D fan turned professional, all that good stuff. So, yeah, Sanj, did you want to introduce yourself?
Sanjana: Hi. Yes, I'm Sanj. You pretty much, like, covered it all! I started out in music because I was a, well I still am, a One Direction fan, but stan Twitter pretty much raised me. I basically became a music marketer at the age of 14. I guess you could say, like, One Direction, one of my first unofficial employees, basically!
Joanna: Yes.
Sanjana: Now I've just finished studying marketing at uni. I'm currently a social media and content creation intern for a talent agency, JV Agency, and I'm searching for a full time job now in the industry, which is scary but exciting.
Joanna: Yeah. So, hey, any professional, any head of marketing at any place, if you're listening to this, hire her right now, because she knows what she's doing! Also, I just love that you are not afraid to market yourself as, like, “1D fan turned professional”. Like, you literally told me to introduce you as that. And I think that that's so cool that you're so proud of that, because I feel like sometimes I still struggle to say, like, “yeah, I'm a massive fan girl”, and that's a big part of my life and a big part of why I want to do music. And I feel like a lot of us have to be more open about that because like you said, you were basically a little marketer at the age of 14.
Sanjana: Yeah. I think it's interesting because when I started out, I didn't tell anyone and I held back on all my fan experience, did not put anywhere on my cover letter or my resume that I have a Twitter account or anything. And I was hitting a lot of walls, and I just didn't really know how to proceed. And then I was speaking to a friend, and that was when I also started hearing about organizations such as Fan to Band and all these other music industry organizations. And then I kind of just, like, was doing an application and just thought, “might as well put it”, because one of the questions was like, how have you demonstrated your passion in music over the years, or something like that. And all I could think of was my fan experience because I had nothing else to say. So I was just like, “okay, whatever. I'm just going to do it. I'm going to say everything”. And I did,and I got the internship…
Joanna: Yes!
Sanjana: And that was like a big turning point for me. Like when I talked about it and then I had an industry professional in the interview tell me that they were really interested by it. I think that gave me a lot of confidence. And since then, I do think you have to be careful to an extent. As much as we're trying to break down the stereotype, it does very much exist. My first internship in the industry, they knew that I had a Twitter account, and they knew that I was a super fan. But they didn't know that it was for One Direction. They didn't really ask, I didn't really bring it up, because I wasn't sure how it would go down. So I do think you have to be careful. But at the same time, I kind of have this mindset where I'm like, “do I want to work for a company that doesn't empower superfans”? No. I don't think that would be a company where I would see myself having a long term career because it would mean that I couldn't be myself. And pretty much all the ideas that I come up with now are because of our strategies that I've enjoyed viewing as a fan. So like, if people ask me where my views stem from, it's probably going to be something related to, like, an artist or a band that I've grown up watching over the years. And I just think life is too short. Fangirls don't have anything to be embarrassed about, like, fans run the industry like they literally do.
Joanna: Period!
Sanjana: Without fans, you're not going to have streams, you're not going to have sales. You're not going to sell much, like we run the industry. But that's the same with any industry. Like, you need consumers for sales, even like Amazon, if they don't have consumers buying their products, they don't have a business, period. So it's the same with music. So I just think, why should we be embarrassed when we're running the industry?
Joanna: Yeah, I love that. And even this is something that recently happened. Like, I saw a week ago, Ariana Grande was on the Kelly Clarkson Show, and this interview was going viral because she was saying that the opinions that she values the most in terms of when she's thinking about what's next for her in terms of what songs she's going to release or her sound, are her fans. And she actually said that she has a couple of really close friends who she began being friends with because they were just really out and proud fans of her. And then they started mingling, and then she will send them sneak peeks of her songs and snippets and be like, “what do you guys think?” Because she knows that they are super fans and that at the end of the day, their opinions are going to be very similar to the opinions of the fans. And the fans are the ones who are buying the music, buying the merch, going to these tours. And she even said something along the lines of, “not that I don't value the opinions of my team and all of these professionals, at the same time, my fans are where everything really revolves around. They're the ones who I do this for. So of course, I want their opinion”. And when she said that everyone was going off like, “period, she knows, fans run the industry”. And I think that it's so cool because a lot of artists are a lot more woke about that.
Sanjana: Yeah. I think definitely now as well, especially in the past. I mean, I don't know if it's just me, but I definitely feel it is like the pandemic. And in the last 18 months, there's been a real shift, I think, just to empowering women in general. And I think with that has been this real turn of, like, empowering fangirls in the industry.
Jade: Definitely. I think that if you're in the music industry, your consumers, like you said, are fans and so working for a company that doesn't value that or starting a company that doesn't value that, or whatever you happen to be doing, just makes no sense because you're basically saying, like, “I don't really care about my buyers. I don't really care about my consumers”. I'm pretty sure, like, I'm enrolled in business school guys! And that is the number one thing that you learn is: don't ignore your customers!
Joanna: Oh yeah, completely!
Jade: And I feel like it was just, I think, just up until recently, it was like, “ignore the customers” in the music industry a little bit, not necessarily ignore them, but push them aside, but “use them when we need to”. And I think that the rules are now reversing because people like you Sanj and people that aren't afraid to talk about it. I think that's really cool. So how is your marketing experience and your marketing previously with us at Jaded and like, all of your marketing experience and your University experience in marketing, how has all of that shaped what you think the music industry will be in, like, five years time?
Sanjana: Oh, interesting. Okay. So growing up, I think I was someone who was always interested in people's behavior and motivation. I think that's why I ended up doing psychology at Uni. Growing up on stan Twitter meant that I was always up to date with the latest trends in technology. I think our generation, especially, has been so attuned with cultural shifts and everything that's happening online and how the digital era has affected marketing. I think my degree helped me transform my ideas into actual objectives, and it's like, okay, we have this great idea. But how can we turn it into a smart objective that's tailored to an audience that can bring in and show results? My experience in music has helped me do that, specifically with artists and fans. I think what I've loved the most about my experience is working across different genres. I think when I started out, I kind of had the mindset that I didn't know how to market to anyone who wasn't, like, a teenage girl because that's what I'd ever known. And I think that when you start out, it can be hard to navigate, like a different audience, like different age groups, different genders, that type of thing. I think that looking into the future of the industry, something that I think that is really interesting and I've been paying attention to is like partnerships and influencer strategies that are used as incentives to engage fans. Like what Lil Nas X has done with Uber Eats or what Ariana Grande's done with Fortnite, BTS doing that thing with McDonald's. And I think that we only honestly dipped our foot into the ocean. I think there is so much more. I feel like, give it, like, three to four years and something's going to completely revolutionize the industry and the way that the industry interacts with other companies that aren't in music. I think so far you get the classic, like, clothing partnerships and, like, makeup and skincare and all of that. But like food and gaming I think that's really rising and that's really interesting and really exciting as well. And I think that seeing how industry's blend is something that I've been interested in and paying attention to. I also think that that's going to lead to a lot more, like, innovation when it comes to how artists are promoted and how we see billboard ads. I don't know. I saw something on LinkedIn the other day and they had, like, this big billboard in London and it looked 3D. It was like this person was coming out of it. It was like beta testing. And I thought that was really cool because it literally looked like the person was coming out of the screen. And I was like, imagine if they did that with a concert or something that would be so cool. I saw this thing and it was like, delivery had this deal, that if you buy four consecutive meals, you get 20% off, like, imagine if Ticketmaster did that with gigs and things like that. I think that would be really interesting and really cool.
Joanna: Gosh, if only Ticketmaster could buy five tickets, get one free. I would have had, like, 20 free concert tickets at this point, to be honest! *everyone laughs(
Jade: Yeah. I love that. And I love how you had mentioned that something gives it three, four, or five years time and something's going to revolutionize the industry because it's going to continue to happen. I think that's the only thing that's going to keep people coming back. And that's how industries have to do things to stay relevant with the times. If you think about it, there are vinyls and then CDs, and then all of a sudden, “Holy crap, the iPod came out”. You know what I mean? Something that big could revolutionize the industry once again, because then after iPodas, there was like streaming. You don't have to download it to the MP3 player anymore. You can just search it up in your search engine and it's there whatever you want to listen to whenever you want to listen to it. I think I find it interesting to hear that from the marketing side, too. Like, how are people going to revolutionize things on the marketing side, which is going to be really cool?
Sanjana: I think that when industries merge like that, I think that will be so powerful for businesses and consumers to be exposed to things that they might not have thought they'd like, because I think that like being a fan of music, if your favorite artist starts promoting, like, a skincare line, you might have never thought twice to be interested in that skincare line and then actually really like their products and then become, like, a loyal customer of that. And I think that will be really beneficial for brands to jump on the opportunity of taking advantage of those types of strategies.
Joanna: Oh yeah, and even when we were thinking about or when you were talking about different partnerships, it made me think of, like Ariana Grande. Her last tour was the Sweetener World tour. She had voting, voting registration stands at every single show and the amount of numbers that probably went up because of her, I should have back checked this, but I didn't think about it. She was really pushing it during the last election to get people to vote. And even now, like in California, when we had the California recall vote, Finneas O'Connell. He obviously lives in California, and he's a California native, so he was pushing that, too. And these artists know that they have this draw. And companies know that, too. Even thinking about, like, the development of all these insane marketing and brand partnerships like Olivia Rodrigo collaborating with Sour Patch kids? That was just sheer genius. I didn't even think about it. But of course, Sour, Sour Patch kids, it was amazing. And just imagine, like, how much the sales went up just because of that. So kind of on that topic, what has been your favorite marketing, and things that you've seen, because I have a feeling you're probably going to say Harry Styles with Eroda, because that was a big one. But even just thinking about, like, Tyler the Creator with Call Me If You Get Lost, and you call the number and it has a snippet of the song, that's insane! So what's been your favorite or, like, a couple of your favorites or what's something you like, about how it's been done?
Sanjana: I think Taylor's Easter eggs. We could have a whole podcast just dedicated to those. I think that's really clever, such a good way of keeping fans hooked. I think Taylor has such an incredible way, I feel like I need a neurologist to dive into her brain for me. I think she's insane at keeping fans hooked and on their toes and, like, with her, like, Anagrams, is that the word like, Anagrams? Is that what they call it? I think that's the word like, is that what they called when they like, when you match up the letters and then people have to figure out what the words are?
Jade: I haven't seen this one, so I don't know.
Joanna: I know what you mean, but I don't know exactly what it's called. It's okay.
Sanjana: *laughs* Okay yeah, those. And just like, the way that she'll color, coordinate different things or drop different clues. I think that's really clever because everything connects, but in ways that you would never expect. And, like, the way that she has her dates, like, everything adds up. Yes, I'm, of course, biased with Harry Style, but not talking about Eroda. I think his “Lights Up” marketing is so underrated. Like the whole “Do you know who you are” thing. That was just, that whole night. Honestly, it feels like a fever dream. He came out of nowhere, but everyone was like, screaming on stan Twitter, like, that whole night. I just think that the website was really clever, like, the posters in Australia were so random, but so clever because everyone was like, “what's going on in Australia”, like, “Hello” type of thing. I also do think I've been watching Lil Nas X’s campaign from Montero, and I just think he's been so his way of engaging fans, not just on Instagram, but on Twitter as well. I think it is so clever. Like, the way he's using the Teletubbies and SpongeBob and all these other different brands to showcase his own personality. I think that's so clever because he's showcasing his art and, like, the way he was pregnant. And then he did, like, “oh, I'm giving birth”. That's genius. No one's ever done that. It's funny, it keeps people engaged. It's also like breaking so many gender barriers. So it's having that conversation, but not in a serious way. And I think that, like, any way that you can keep fans engaged, be humorous about it, but also make it fun, I think you're winning. Like, I think you just have to do something that's out of the box. It doesn't have to be big. Like, you don't need a big budget or, like, a big fan base to execute it. I think that you just need to take those big risks, like, when you have an idea and you think it's too big and you think it's too crazy or too wild. Those are the ideas that you need to put out. I think that, I have no doubt that Olivia Rodrigo, Lil Nas X, Ariana Grande have gone through countless fears of, like, “what if they think it's really weird and it flops, and I lose all my fans, and they think that I'm really weird, and they stop supporting me?” I honestly think that so many artists have had those feelings, but if you don't try, you don't know. So, yeah, I feel like they're probably... I could go back in the day and talk about One Direction’s, like, “No Control” fan project. And that was so cool. That also literally shows the power of fans. If fans want a single to be released and you don't release it, they'll just do it for you!
Joanna: Yeah!
Sanjana: So, yeah. I feel like those are the main ones that I can think of, like, right now on the top of my head.
Jade: That's super awesome. I really like those, some of those I have been watching myself, like, the Lil Nas X one when he showed up on my, not my for you page.. When he showed up on my Instagram feed as pregnant, I was like, “Wait, what's happening?” I was so confused. And then I understood, I was like, “it's like his “baby”’. His first album, makes sense. And I just thought that was genius. I was like, wow, there are so many genius marketing plans coming out, and you mentioned a couple of them, like, Sour and Montero and just all these crazy marketing plans. And, Joanna, when you said, Call Me If You Get Lost with Tyler the Creator, I remember there was this one for Justin Bieber for “Hotline Bling” the remix, the Drake remix. Well, no Justin Bieber remixed Drake's “Hotline Bling”, And you called the number, and then “Hotline Bling” by Justin will play through the phone, and I remember it. And I didn't think about it at the time, but I was like, “that's actually brilliant”, because it's about making your hotline bling, like, calling somebody and then you call the number and you hear the song. And I was like, that was super genius. You know what I mean? And like you said, with what was it, was it “No Control”?
Sanajan: Yeah. “No Control”.
Jade: And the fans wanted to release it. So they did release it. Is that true?
Sanjana: Yeah. Well, they pretty much got it on all the radios and then got it in the chart.
Joanna: Yeah.
Jade: Okay! So it wasn’t released as a single?
Joanna: It was a massive campaign, basically, because they wanted it to be a single for that album, and it wasn't. And so they called in to all the radio stations and made it get on the radio. And so it became its own single.
Jade: Oh, my gosh. Okay, so exactly. Like we're saying, marketing really goes hand in hand with engaging with your fans. Honestly, because what are you doing the marketing campaign for? Your fans. And what are your fans doing for you? Marketing your music. It's like, it's like a back and forth. Like, who's more powerful? They're both just as powerful when they work together.
Sanajan: Yeah! I think it was Why Don’t We who showed up at fans houses or something? Was it Why Don't We?
Joanna: I don’t know, I'm a newer fan of Why Don't We, so anything that happened back in the day, I'm not super sure about, but even with Why Don't We, something that I think is cool that they were doing is that a snippet of their new song, which is going to be released in a week. By the time this comes out, it's already out, so go stream it up. But I think a fan leaked a little snippet of their song, and then somebody turned into a TikTok audio, and instead of getting pissed about it, they started using the TikTok audio, and they were just like, “Hmm I wonder what this is”. And they would put stuff like, “when your song gets leaked, but you just kind of go with it”. And then they were just like making videos, and like, from them, they're promoting the song before it's even out. And now that it's finally coming out, officially, everybody has already heard that snippet and everybody's been pushing it so much. Everyone is so ready for it, and the streams are probably going to be insane.
Sanjana: Yeah. I love that. I think what's really interesting about that is I think now reactive marketing is so important, and it goes down so well, even with Taylor Swift dropping, like the “Wildest Dreams Taylor's Version”...
Joanna: Yup!
Sanjana: Because it went viral on a TikTok trend, instead of getting instead of being weird like, “why is this on going viral?” Like, artists are jumping on that trend, and I think Charlie XCX did it as well, with “Unlock It”. I think that was her song that went viral on TikTok, and I think that song is pretty old, like, I think it came out a couple of years ago, but she didn't really use TikTok, I think, before that. But then her song went big on it and then she started using it. So it shows how artists are jumping on the trends that their fans are using and are being attentive to that, and I think that works out really well.
Jade: Definitely. And I think that planning a release and trying to create hype, prior to the song releasing is super hard, unless, like you said, it gets leaked, like, Why Don't We or Taylor Swift. You know what I mean? Because it's a challenge to figure out how to get people engaged and they haven't even heard anything, especially for a new artist. Like, by the time this comes out, “West Coast Blues” is out right now. So it's so interesting to try and find people that have never heard an artist before, never heard any of their original stuff, but get them to engage with this artist and to presave the artist and to really engage with the artists. And I think that that's one of the biggest challenges that probably the marketers come into contact with, because that's one of the bigger challenges that I come into contact with personally, how can we create a real, tangible fan base, and how can we make them come back more and more for each release? And I think that the answer is finding a lucrative marketing campaign.
Sanjana: Yeah. It's hard when there are thousands of other artists and marketers and artist managers wondering and doing the exact same thing as well. And it changes every day like, we could wake up tomorrow to, like, a new TikTok or something like, who knows what's going to happen. It's crazy. I also saw today, actually, that TikTok’s, I think in China, they've launched a music app that's, like part of TikTok, but separate, or something, like in China. Like a separate... I don't know if it's a music streaming service or if it's like a different app, but like an extension of TikTok, I think.
Jade: “Musically”. *laughs*
Sanjana: But I don't know how that's going to, like, I thought it was interesting because I don't know where I heard this, but someone mentioned it the other day and was like, “there's no app right now that's just music”, in terms of... like TikTok is music, but it obviously has so many other elements to it. I can't remember who said it, but someone said that there's no app that's just about discovering artists. There's no app with just the music element of TikTok, if that makes sense.
Jade: Like a music social media?
Sanjana: Yeah. Or, like, kind of like a music social media thing.
Joanna: There is actually this one app that I found to be really interesting. And this app, this app makes the... TikTok is kind of the reason why I became a massive fan of Why Don't We, because I went to a Positions streaming party that was set up by this girl that I followed on TikTok, and she had a pretty big following there. And so it was just a massive Zoom call. And everyone was just jamming and listening to Positions, and they had a playlist that was like a little intermission. And during it, a song started playing and I asked people in the chat, like, “what is the song?” And everyone was like, “this is Why Don’t We!” And I was like, “wow, I would have never heard the song if it wasn't for all of these people”. And I just didn't really think about it. And then this app called... Drop It? I'm not sure, something like that.
Sanjana: Oh, do you mean Bob Drop?
Joanna: Bop Drop!
Sanjana: Yeah I heard of that.
Joanna: The app is called Bop Drop, and basically, every 24 hours, you're able to post a song that is just a song that you want to share. And from there anybody who's scrolling on their feed, there's a feed of people that you just strictly follow, and then there's a feed of just everybody on Bop Drop, and you can just keep scrolling. And then when you click on the song, it plays a thirty second snippet so you can see if you like it. And if you do, there's a button that takes you directly to Spotify, and it can create a playlist specifically of songs that you saved from Bop Drop. And it is so cool! And from there, I started following people, and a lot of people started posting songs from Why Don't We, from their new album. And I was like, “wow, I actually really like these songs”, and I would have never heard them, if I couldn't just hear these little snippets just from my friends, who are other fans. And in general, when you go on your feed that are people you don't even follow, you get to discover such awesome music and you can comment on it and follow other people. So it's like a very small app. But I think that it's a very cool one. So anybody who's listening, I definitely recommend going on to Bop Drop if you're looking for a way to find new music, that's not just like TikTok.
Sanjana: Yeah, that's so cool.
Joanna: Yes, download it right now!
Jade: That sounds really awesome. So Sanj, we have one more question for you, and I feel like this is going to tie things up perfectly. Talk a little bit about... because I know you interviewed at least me for your University, right?
Joanna: Yeah, and me too.
Jade: Yeah, so what were your findings on that?
Sanjana: Yeah. So I basically had to do a project, and I decided to do it on how smaller emerging artists can sustain a career presence in the industry, like, not just attract a fan base, but retain that fan base as well. Because I found that the main problems are how competitive the industry is, it's so over-saturated, and a lot of emerging artists don't feel like they: A, don't feel like they have the resources, and B, they feel like they have to wear so many different hats. Now, like, you have to be your own marketer, your own businessman. You have to be recording all the songs, you have to be your own sound tech. And that can just be very overwhelming, obviously, for small artists who probably are doing a full time job or a part time job on the side of trying to make it into the industry.
So I tried to simplify it because I was like, “I could be going on for quite a while”. But I basically did, like interviews. And then when I was writing up my analysis, I had to put all my data into themes. So one of my themes was “Specific Strategies”. So I basically found that fans prefer videos over photos, that was like a big thing. So like interactive content, like teasers, behind the scenes snippets. A lot of people talked about the Instagram photo dumps, and things that could take people to show, like, an artist's personality.
Something that also was really interesting was the importance of live music. So a lot of people said how that's central to creating a fan base. And also you can gauge a crowd response to a new song, or you can see how they react like each song on an EP, for example.
Also collaborating with other artists to attract similar fans from. If you collaborate with a similar artist, then you get their fans as well. Also handing out flyers and posters, pitching to independent publications. Something that was interesting, though, was a lot of people said that they do think that musicians need to have a basic understanding of the business, and it can be quite hard if you're a fan who's trying to be an artist manager, or like to work in the industry, but you're also trying to help an artist who doesn't have a basic understanding of publishing, or like royalties, or anything like that. And it can be quite hard to explain the legalities of this type of thing.
There were a lot of mixed opinions on TikTok, which I also thought was quite interesting. So a lot of people said that without TikTok, artists are holding themselves back in the industry. But equally, people said that they thought TikTok actually isn't that important, because there were apps before it, and there will be apps after it, which I thought was quite interesting because, from my side, I've just seen people talk about the positive side of TikTok on the music industry and how amazing it's been for artist discovery. But when I was speaking to people, they actually thought that that wasn't necessarily the case.
Also artists need to have a clear vision, a clear brand. They need to know who they want to be and showcase that through genuine, authentic content, listening to fan feedback, as we've said before adapting to trends. And I also found that a lot of emerging artists now are of a similar age to their fans, and during a time like COVID, which has been very difficult emotionally immensely for a lot of people, finding smaller artists who are vulnerable about their own experiences, that has been really valuable in developing like that fan-artist connection. And a lot of fans have related to smaller artists based on just being able to share the difficult times.
Also, a lot of emerging artists have grown up being fans of the larger artists that we've grown up being a fan of. And that's something that's been really valuable because a lot of them mentioned how they've taken inspiration from those artists, it means their social media savvy, and they also know how to engage fan bases.
Artists need to focus on encouraging their fans to interact and become friends with each other because that's how you build a community. And then that's how you encourage fans to go to your shows. Something that I thought was interesting as well is people thought that if they were already a fan of a large artist, they were less likely to then become a fan, or not becoming a fan, but join a fan community of a smaller artist. Some people said that they've kind of already done it, they don't want to start from scratch, and there was less motivation.
Cancel culture was also a big topic that came up when talking about community identification with smaller artists. If they get canceled, you have less emotional connection, so it's easier to move on. Whereas, if you've been a fan of an artist for several years and there's something that comes up in the media, you might just ignore it, or whatever. It's harder to just let go.
If the fan base is problematic, that can affect how fans then support the artists if they're like bullied, if they're ostracized from the community, if there's too much competition, hierarchy, things like that, but then other fans still support the artist.
Also, so in terms of supporting small artists, most fans said that word of mouth, social media and, like, live shows were the most important ways that they display their support. But interestingly, they were less likely to buy merch and buy physical albums of smaller artists in terms of spending money. It was mostly just like going to shows and then that would just be it. But there was also a genuine desire to support smaller artists. I think fans really understand how difficult it is to break into the industry and also how important supporting smaller artists is not only just for their income, but also for their confidence. It can be really hard and… I don't know what the word is, but it knocks your confidence and when you know you're trying so hard and not getting anywhere.
And oh yes, also, fan communities of larger artists tend to find small artists together. So smaller artists should target the fan bases of larger artists who are similar to them, not in just terms of music, but also in terms of messages or branding or hobbies, that type of thing, because there's so much more than the music that keeps the fan connected.
So yeah, that was still really long, even though I said I was going to keep it short. But those were like my main findings.
Joanna: No, I love that there were a few stand out things that I really wanted to comment on. One of the things was definitely the thing about the similar fan bases and artists collaborating with artists that they find themselves similar. That instantly, all I thought of was The Kid Laroi and Justin Bieber. Not only are they both managed by Scooter Braun, but them collaborating, they have so many collaborations together, I feel like that has made The Kid Laroi so much more popular, because Justin Bieber, obviously he's one of the biggest and most known artists in the world, so obviously anybody that he collaborates with, they're bound to their fans will then merge into like, well, who is this person now and then? There are so many collaborations that are under Justin Bieber's name and then so many that are under The Kid Laroi’s name, especially with “Stay”, that one... huge, massive song. So I think that that is so important, and I think that it is really cool that you talked about trying to market yourself to those different fan bases because fans are so dedicated, and something that I really wanted to touch on also is the fact that there is so much emotional drive with these fans. I thought it was so interesting, what you said about the cancel culture thing, about how, like, when you're emotionally tied to an artist, it can be really hard for fans to leave them, even if something does come up from the past, because you're already so tied to them. Like, if Harry Styles was to be canceled today, I don't know what I would do, because how could I leave? *chuckles* But at the same time, you're just like, it's a struggle because these fans spend so much time being so dedicated to them. And I thought that was really interesting. Um… God, there was another thing that you said that I really want to touch on. But you said so much, you said so much, like, cool stuff that I thought was really interesting.
Jade: I definitely thought it was super interesting. I think the facts speak for themselves. There wasn't a comment in there that I was like, “no, that's not true”. You know what I mean? I think that the facts speak for themselves, I would just be reiterating honestly at this point. So, yeah, that was amazing. Thank you so much Sanj for being here. I thought it was super interesting and it was super awesome to hear all these cool facts. And I think that I'm going to listen back for sure and just be like, “oh, yeah, for sure. That is true!” Because I was just thinking about it and I was like, yeah, that is true, oh my God.
Joanna: I just remembered what it was, what I was going to say!
Sanjana: Yeah?
Joanna: What I was going to say was the importance of artists being vulnerable. I love that you touched on that because I feel like a lot of people don't really think about how much of an impact that has and instantly when you said that, all I could think of was Billie Eilish. And I think that even when you were talking about similar ages, like when you think about an an artist like Olivia Rodrigo, she just barely turned 18. And so much of her fans are 18 or younger, when you think about, like, she started on Disney. So a lot of her fans were really young and Gen Z people. And so obviously, I think that there is a lot to be said about demographics and things and how sometimes it doesn't necessarily, isn't necessarily always true that you have to market yourself to one certain age range, because I have a cousin who's 25, and she's like, “why am I relating to the words of an 18 year old? I don't know. But I am”.
Sanjana: Yeah.
Joanna: And I think that artists like Billie Eilish, she's never been one to shy away from her struggles with mental health. And I think that that's something that's really awesome, because she was so young when she started and she's even been so open about the fact that she was a massive Justin Bieber fan, and that's one reason that she loves the industry. And her fangirl moment when she met Justin Bieber is so relatable. And I feel like it makes fans feel so connected to her, and her just not being afraid to just market herself as herself, and just do what she wants to do, and just always be open with her struggles and open with the fact that all of this is normal. Like, one of her biggest songs that skyrocketed her career was “idontwannabeyouanymore”, and it's basically about how she just didn't like herself and how she was comparing herself to other people. And I feel like so many people really saw themselves in her, and still do. And I think that's why she blew up so much like she did, because people just relate to her and they feel like they can be her friend. When I found her, I was literally 18 and she was 16, and I was like, “wow, this girl is just so open and she's just not afraid to be herself”. And I think that that speaks volumes of people who are successful versus people who might be a little bit more closed off and not really show a lot about their personality, because I feel like fans are not super drawn to the mystery anymore. We want to feel like we know them.
Sanjana: Definitely, I read this thing and it was like “personality gets super fans and music just gets fans”. I think that it's so true. Also, I think that before social media got really big, I feel like celebrities in general were viewed as like these intangible A-Listers with a different life, and everything about them was like, they were almost like part of a different world, it didn't feel like they were just like us. But I think social media really broke down that gap between fans and celebrities, not just in music, but in all industries. When asked this, like, for example, we're able to showcase their lives on Instagram, I don't know, like them in bed or whatever or making their morning cup of coffee. It slowly humanized them. And I think that over the years, artists have become more like human. And we sort of get that insight into what they do on a day to day basis outside of their job. I think with that and also with Generation Z in general. But that's why it's so important now for artists to just be themselves because people want to feel like they can relate to you, and they want that person who they feel like is there for them, no matter what, when you're growing up and you're like, 15 and you just want that person there. I think that's the power of music, in general, it's that safety net and that comfort zone, which also brings such an amazing community with it. So I think that artists who aren't doing that are really holding themselves back, because it's like your music isn't enough to make fans want to be your ride or die, like, they need more. And you can only give them that by just being yourself and being open about who you are.
Joanna: Yes, I completely agree.
Jade: I think that's perfect. I love that. I think that's a way to go out with a bank. I think I like that. Be yourself, do you. Thank you so much, Sanj, for being here. And this has been another episode of A Little Jaded.
Transcription By: Mai Vo
Edited By: Joanna Serrano